Ex-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows granted immunity, tells special counsel he warned Trump about 2020 claims: Sources

Former President Donald Trump’s ultimate leader of team of workers within the White House, Mark Meadows, has spoken with special counsel Jack Smith’s workforce a minimum of thrice this yr, together with as soon as ahead of a federal grand jury, which got here handiest after Smith granted Meadows immunity to testify underneath oath, consistent with resources acquainted with the subject.

The resources stated Meadows knowledgeable Smith’s workforce that he time and again advised Trump within the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of important balloting fraud coming to them had been baseless, a hanging smash from Trump’s prolific rhetoric in regards to the election.

According to the resources, Meadows additionally advised the federal investigators Trump used to be being “dishonest” with the general public when he first claimed to have gained the election handiest hours after polls closed on Nov. 3, 2020, ahead of ultimate effects had been in.

“Obviously we didn’t win,” a supply quoted Meadows as telling Smith’s workforce in hindsight.

Trump has known as Meadows, one of the previous president’s closest and highest-ranking aides within the White House, a “special friend” and “a great chief of staff — as good as it gets.”

The descriptions of what Meadows allegedly advised investigators shed additional mild at the proof Smith’s workforce has collected because it prosecutes Trump for allegedly looking to unlawfully retain energy and “spread lies” about the 2020 election. The descriptions additionally disclose how a long way Trump loyalists like Meadows have long gone to reinforce and protect Trump.

Sources advised ABC News that Smith’s investigators had been keenly serious about wondering Meadows about election-related conversations he had with Trump throughout his ultimate months in place of work, and whether or not Meadows in truth believed some of the claims he incorporated in a guide he printed after Trump left place of work — a guide that promised to “correct the record” on Trump.

ABC News has recognized a number of assertions within the guide that seem to be contradicted by means of what Meadows allegedly advised investigators at the back of closed doorways.

According to Meadows’ guide, the election used to be “stolen” and “rigged” with lend a hand from “allies in the liberal media,” who overlooked “actual evidence of fraud, right there in plain sight for anyone to access and analyze.”

But, as described to ABC News, Meadows privately advised Smith’s investigators that — to at the moment — he has but to peer any proof of fraud that might have stored now-president Joe Biden from the White House, and he advised them he concurs with a central authority review on the time that the 2020 presidential election used to be probably the most safe election in U.S. historical past.

‘We did win this election’

Trump used to be already wondering the integrity of the election months ahead of Election Day. Then, inside hours of polls ultimate on Nov. 3, 2020 — as Trump used to be starting to lose key states — Trump claimed on nationwide TV that it used to be all “a major fraud.”

“Frankly, we did win this election,” Trump declared.

Meadows advised investigators previous this yr that he’s lengthy believed Trump used to be being cheating when he made that remark, given the truth that votes had been nonetheless being counted and the effects from a number of states weren’t in but.

Nevertheless, public testimony has proven that within the weeks after the election, Meadows helped Trump vet allegations of fraud that had been making their method to Trump from other people like Rudy Giuliani, whom Trump installed rate of felony efforts to stay Trump within the White House.

But Meadows stated that by means of mid-December, he privately knowledgeable Trump that Giuliani hadn’t produced any proof to again up the various allegations he used to be making, resources stated. Then-attorney normal Bill Barr additionally knowledgeable Trump and Meadows in an Oval Office assembly that allegations of election fraud had been “not panning out,” as Barr recounted in testimony to Congress remaining yr.

Meadows has stated publicly that he believed “a number of allegations” nonetheless warranted “further investigation,” and that he “hadn’t reached a conclusion” at the election general by means of past due December.

Also by means of then, Trump had run out of felony choices. When the U.S. Supreme Court on Dec. 11, 2020, denied his ultimate courtroom problem, Trump advised Meadows one thing to the impact of, “Then that’s the end,” or, “So that’s it,” Meadows recalled to investigators, consistent with resources.

Still, Trump would not backpedal, insisting there used to be popular fraud however that the Justice Department wasn’t “looking for it,” Barr recalled.

While talking with investigators, Meadows used to be particularly requested if Trump ever said to him that he’d misplaced the election. Meadows advised investigators he by no means heard Trump say that, consistent with resources.

On Jan. 2, 2021, Meadows helped arrange the now-infamous telephone name between Trump and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger, throughout which Trump pressed Raffensberger to “find 11,780 votes … because we won the state.”

Meadows has stated publicly that he necessarily offered everybody at the name — which is corroborated by means of transcripts of the decision that had been made public — and he has stated he used to be merely looking to lend a hand them unravel a dispute over Georgia’s election effects.

On the decision, Trump discussed allegations of fraudulent ballots hidden in suitcases, which the Justice Department had already taken “a hard look at” and debunked, consistent with Barr’s testimony.

As described to ABC News, Meadows advised Smith’s investigators that, round that point, there have been repeatedly he sought after to surrender over considerations that the best way positive allegations of fraud had been being treated can have a adverse affect — however he in the end did not go away as a result of he sought after to lend a hand be sure that a calm switch of energy.

‘Sheer quantity of falsehoods’

Aided by means of a ghostwriter, Meadows printed his guide, “The Chief’s Chief,” just about a yr after Trump left place of work.

“[T]he sheer volume of falsehoods that have been published about the president’s time in the White House is astounding,” the guide says. “I consider this book a small opportunity to correct the record.”

Trump even promoted the guide himself, issuing a remark in December 2021 announcing the guide “rightfully spends much time talking about the large-scale Election Fraud that took place … also known as the Crime of the Century.”

But resources advised ABC News that after talking with Smith’s investigators, Meadows conceded that he does not in truth consider some of the statements in his guide.

According to the resources, Meadows advised investigators that he does not trust what is in his guide when it says “our many referrals to the Department of Justice were not seriously investigated.”

Meadows advised investigators he believes the Justice Department used to be taking allegations of fraud critically, correctly investigating them, and doing all they may to search out reliable circumstances of fraud — and he advised investigators he relayed all that to Trump a couple of weeks after the election, the resources stated.

Similarly — as described by means of resources to ABC News — regardless of Meadows telling investigators that Giuliani by no means produced proof of important fraud within the election, his guide refers to Giuliani’s efforts to reveal “the fraud, and the dirty tricks on election night.”

“The people who rigged this election knew that eventually, these irregularities would come to light … [So] they conducted the operation, then attacked anyone who dared ask questions about what they had done,” his guide says.

Meadows went even additional whilst selling his guide on right-wing media in November 2021. When requested by means of a podcast host if he believes the end result of the 2020 election used to be fraudulent, Meadows answered, “I do believe that there are a number of fraudulent states … I’ve seen at least illegal activity in Pennsylvania [and] in Georgia” — referring to 2 key states that clinched the White House for Biden.

Under the penalty of perjury, Meadows presented a hugely other review to Smith’s investigators, telling them he’s by no means observed any proof of fraud that might undermine the election’s result, consistent with what resources advised ABC News.

‘I assume those persons are extra disillusioned’

The ultimate document by means of the U.S. House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, assaults at the U.S. Capitol accused Meadows of together with “a number of intentional falsehoods” in his guide, however the committee’s document interested in allegations about Trump’s movements on that fateful day, no longer claims about the election extra extensively.

Portions of what Meadows advised investigators seem to align with broader testimony that different most sensible White House aides, together with former Meadows assistant Cassidy Hutchinson, supplied to the House committee, describing a president apparently hesitant to take decisive motion to forestall the violent mob on Jan. 6, 2021.

Sources stated Meadows showed that at one level, because the riots had been unfolding, Trump were given on a choice with then-House Republican chief Kevin McCarthy, and advised McCarthy, “I guess these people are more upset than you are.”

However, consistent with what Meadows advised investigators, Trump gave the impression to develop more and more involved as he realized extra about what used to be transpiring on the Capitol, and Trump used to be visibly shaken when he heard that any individual were shot there, resources stated.

Trump supporter Ashli Babbitt used to be fatally shot when she attempted to damage thru a barricaded front close to the House chamber. Other Trump supporters sustained deadly accidents that day, and a legislation enforcement officer died after looking to protect the Capitol.

Meadows has no longer been charged in Smith’s federal case, he has been charged — along side Trump, Giuliani and 16 others — by means of government in Georgia for allegedly looking to overturn the election leads to that state. Four of the ones charged have already pleaded responsible and agreed to testify for the prosecution, whilst the others, together with Meadows, Trump and Giuliani, have pleaded no longer responsible and are looking forward to trial.

Meadows sought to have the Georgia case towards him moved to federal courtroom, however that effort used to be denied. He is now interesting that call.

From 2013 to 2020, Meadows represented North Carolina in Congress, the place he additionally led the conservative House Freedom Caucus for 2 years.

Under the immunity order from Smith’s workforce, the information Meadows supplied to the grand jury previous this yr cannot be used towards him in a federal prosecution.

Trump has pleaded no longer responsible within the election-related federal case towards him.

In reaction to those trends, a spokesperson for Trump’s presidential marketing campaign stated in a remark, “Wrongful, unethical leaks throughout these Biden witch-hunts only underscore how detrimental these empty cases are to our Democracy and System of Justice and how vital it is for President Trump’s First Amendment rights to not be infringed upon by un-Constitutional gag orders. Transparency and free speech are the only way to combat murky gossip.”

“President Trump will not be deterred by Crooked Joe Biden’s election interference and will continue to focus on winning back the White House and Making America Great Again,” the spokesperson added.

A spokesperson for Smith and an legal professional for Meadows declined to remark to ABC News for this tale.